Again, this program proceeded so slowly that ArmaLite eventually sold the new rifle’s production rights to Colt. ©2021 Outdoor Sportsman Group. In addition, the commercial round is also typically loaded to higher chamber pressures than the military version. As a loader I use 147 Gr. I thought I would give it a try in my Rem 700 SPS 308 Win. The .308 Winchester is not only a historic battlefield caliber, it is an established match caliber and one of the best all-around North American hunting calibers. Since the external case dimensions are essentially the same, they must have thicker case walls. Of course, this can be a bit messy, and you must make sure there are no air bubbles inside the case or drops of water on the outside of the case. Note the Federal and Lapua match case weights; they are almost as heavy as the military samples. 44.5 gr. Aug 25, 2020 #7 S. shootbrownelk Well-known member. I weigh it again and subtract the empty weight. It loves re-15 and 4064 but couldn't get a group under 1.5 MOA with Varget. I'm NOT an expert, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Subscriber Services. 47.5 gr. At best, the excess gap between the case and chamber shoulder will allow the case to stretch when fired and may cause the body just ahead of the case head to crack when the round is discharged or being resized. This is my first post and I have a question concerning load data for my .308. Clicks for lighting, eye sight , target contrast and a host of other things. - - - Updated - - - mac1911 said: Hornady 7th manual page 479 M1 garand 30-06 load data 168 grain A max and BTHP #30501 IMR … With pretty much the same results for 168 and 175 gr SMKs. I have everything, but I'll be danged if I can't find Varget or 4064. Within a month, I received a larger, but just as finely crafted, rifle featuring a stiff, 22-inch stainless Lothar Walther barrel fitted with a muzzle brake. … Weigh each charge, IMR-4064 sucks when thrown from a measure. +1 on this one. SMK, 37.5 gr. When you fire 308 handloads in a bolt rifle, all you have to worry about from a safety perspective is that the propellant gas and bullet exit the muzzle. Very accurate and recoil is a gentle push. However, these days Varget is probably slightly more popular. 78. tadeloach22. Unlike in a bolt action, chambering and extracting the cartridge/case is not augmented by muscle power. Not to worry: You can precisely adjust the full-length sizer die to ensure the resized case shoulder position is not too long or too short. The 44.5 gr. or 43.5 grains (?) Redding 3-BR Powder Measure Four charge weights: 42.4gr, 42.6gr, 42.8gr, 43.0gr Bullets were seated to a C.O.A.L. I have had great luck with 4064 and it works well in the other calibers that I reload, .35, 30.06 and 308. Although the AR-10 received positive reviews, it suffered an embarrassing composite barrel burst. I can tell you this.. while ptobably not being the best load for your particular 308, but If It wont shot a 175 mks with 40 grains of Imr 4064 about. The primary (accuracy) powder charge for each load is noted below. I just noticed the max Sierra … Both of these shoot extremely well. That first range session was frustrating! I load my .308 using Barnes 150 gr… (39.5 to 41.5 gr.) Last year I prepared a review on reloading the 223 Remington for a typical bolt action and an AR rifle. Managing chamber and port pressures is a major consideration when shooting a direct-impingement, gas-operated AR-style rifle. I performed a quick maintenance regimen and mounted the same Weaver tactical optic I had used previously. It has been awhile since I posted anything here. of IMR-4064 COL: 2.800" I remember in the past there was some confusion as to which charge weight Federal was using, 43.2 or 43.5. Yes IMR 4064 has been my go to powder for years in my 308 Win. I started reading about the new 4166 and found that it is … It looks like my range time will be limited before my class at sig next week. Jerry Tierney has had to tweak his .308 Palma … The .22 Magnum revolvers are still poppin' and still popular—and some are made for... Red-dot sights may be just what the doctor ordered for lever-action fans of “a certain age.”. You are using an out of date browser. anyone besides myself like and shoot 38 special? Anyone have a lead on where to get ammo? My experience indicated I should stay within the range of IMR 3031 (fastest) and CFE 223 (slowest) when loading for my 308 Sun Devil rifle. I learned after a subsequent range session that I must take the resizing process one step further. After firing nearly 1,000 rounds of factory ammo and handloads, I’ve learned a lot. While the 6mm-caliber cartridges that can be considered “great” are few in number, some have... James Tarr runs through the 3-Second Headshot drill. I proceeded to the range with boxes of Federal and Hornady 308 Winchester match ammo and a couple of my handloads, intending to fire a few groups to break in and familiarize myself with the new rifle. JavaScript is disabled. After all, it has to reliably feed and eject the cases before you can think about assessing ballistic performance, right? The 43.5 gr. IMR-4895, Winch LR Primer, LC-77 NM case. Results with the 168-grain bullets were more consistent overall, … The bottleneck 7.62x25 Tokarev is a fun cartridge, and handloading it increases the round's... For plinking, target shooting, and routine personal-defense needs, you owe it to yourself to... Give a Gift   My initial handloads assembled with “heavy” cases, e.g., Federal and military brass, exhibited approximately 75 percent failure to fully chamber when fed from the magazine. Standard accuracy load with 168 grain match bullets in .308 is usually stated around 42.0 or 42.5 grains of IMR-4064. OAL: 2.795" I'm aware of that, but thanks for contributing. If it can be extracted easily by drawing back the charging handle, I resize the rest of the batch. empty unprimed cases weigh close to 180 grains). 175 Gr. Moving forward, I’ll spend some more time working with loads in the 42.0 to 42.6 grain range. I have conducted fairly detailed experiments regarding primer choice in the .308 Winchester.For example, by using a Sierra 165-grain spitzer boat-tail bullet with 48.3 grains of Hodgdon CFE 223 powder and a Federal Gold Medal 210M primer, velocity was 2,827 fps and extreme spread was 17 fps. Shoots 175mks well and 185 hybrid bergers even better. Using the 300 Savage as a starting point, the new cartridge design evolved through several iterations at Frankford Arsenal. The Winchester WinClean 244 is a nice addition to Winchester's handgun powders. So I bought a 308 win rifle a couple weeks ago. Manually turning the bolt provides immediate feedback relative to chamber pressure—i.e., if it’s too “tight” and the case head has shiny ejector marks, you’re obviously exceeding safe levels. Another chart lists various brands or types of brass with their average case weight and case capacity. This is getting ridiculous. Ammo assembled with lighter cases with the same sizer die adjustment and topped with the same bullets fed almost 100 percent from the magazine. As I noted earlier, the 7.62 NATO and 308 Winchester cartridge/chamber specs differ a bit. Many years later, the ArmaLite name and AR-10 trademark were sold, and until recently, the company continued to make both 5.56 and 7.62 NATO rifles. Where is the best place to start? No need to add to the chaos, right? If not, I readjust the die as I noted and repeat the process with another case. I am shooting 3/4" groups at 100 yards consistantly. That means the internal case capacity is reduced, so less propellant is required to generate the same chamber pressure as a little more of the same powder loaded in the commercial cases. IMR 4064 Is what my. Lower this charge by at least 1.0 full grain if you use surplus military brass (Lake City, IMI, etc. Post Nov 17, 2016 #1 2016-11-17T18:04. I eventually learned I would have to load faster burn rate propellants. The TTSX 150 and IMR 4064 are my go to round for my Tikka .308. 2.690 in. IMR … IIRC the Federal Gold match 168gr I took apart and measured had 43.5 of 4064. (41.0 to 43.0 gr.) Essentially an “improved,” next generation Garand, the M14 was a little lighter and eliminated or replaced the M1’s undesirable features. imr 4064 308 load data, imr 4064 308 match data, lc match brass load data with imr4064 168gr, most accurate load using imr 4064 powder with 165 grain bullet in 308, reloading with 4064… As soon as I experienced functioning problems, I ordered an RCBS Precision Mic and a 308 Winchester case gauge from Dillon to better understand and verify proper headspace. I loaded several boxes of once-fired commercial and military brass with carefully assembled component combinations. Speer Hot Core SPBT's, 168 Grain Sierra's, 175 Grain Sierra's. There’s about twice as much propellant burned in the 308 compared to the 223. They ranged from 40.8 grains (stick) to 43.0 grains (spherical). Lot variance has frustrated Varget users, however. I found loading 100 to 150 fps under maximum provides satisfactory accuracy and ensures reliable operation. add to cart. Bullet weights varied from 125 to 190 grains, and propellant charge weights ranged from 40 to 49 grains. I've not had the same result in at least one rifle with Varget.. If not, I carefully cleared the jam (I learned the GI method from my gunsmith last year while testing the AR-15) and readjusted the sizer die down no more than an eighth of a turn. And I eventually pulled a bullet from a sample of all the factory loads I tested to measure the propellant weight. IMR 4350 Is a good powder for 180gr and up 06 loads. IMR 4064 Is what my. Maintaining headspace is always important, but it’s critical in an autoloading rifle. I also swapped a couple of parts to help slow the carrier retraction. I can get IMR 4064 in every local store that carries powder everytime I go. I'm doing a couple batches of .308 tonight to feed my FN, i figured i would share. I use IMR 4064 for 168 grain Hornady match bullets out of my 03A4. David Fortier talks with Jeff Hoffman of Black Hills Ammunition about the evolution of the .308 Win. Because the new round (unlike the 30-06) was being designed for (and not adapted to) an autoloading rifle, the case head was beefed up, and the rim thickness and extractor groove width were increased. Reactions: shootbrownelk. 4064 has fairly predictable accuracy nodes in commonly available brass. 175 Gr. It was a pleasurable and rewarding effort. I included almost every Hodgdon, IMR, and Winchester propellant (from H322 to CFE 223) listed in the Hodgdon Annual Manual. As the chart indicates, this general rule of thumb is not always true. My 1/12 twist I think I step up to the 150 TSX and try 8208. When I reloaded all of those initial test loads, resizing the cases a bit more eliminated the problem. The CZ 527 and Sun Devil test rifles both performed quite satisfactorily. I don't shoot anything heavier in my gas guns(M-14SA and GA Precison AR-10). I agree that 5 shot groups (minimum) are the gold standard for accuracy results. The final 7.62x51mm cartridge configuration launched a 147- to 150-grain bullet at 2,750 fps, almost matching the .30-caliber M2 cartridge ballistics. Let’s start with the most important factor: selecting propellants. 168 gr sierra match king43.5gr 40642.831oalbr2 primeri just shot60 of these out on my bolt rifle yesterday, i got 1/2 moa out of them consistently. Reactions: shootbrownelk. Toward the end of World War II, the U.S. military decided to replace the M1 Garand and its battle-proven 30-06 Springfield cartridge. I’ve learned that successfully handloading for my Sun Devil SD308 AR hinges on determining just the right amount of a compatible propellant. Match. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. When working up new loads, I like to start with powders that I already have for other firearms. … Based on those successful experiences, I ordered a scaled-up Sun Devil AR for this report. I just picked up several boxes of Sierra 165 grain bullets. I have been told on good athorty that switching the SMK168 for the AMAX 168 is fine, I have had no worries about it. I only shot 5 groups for theat average, but the best group was in the .6" range. I use the Hornady 168s quite often and they are similar in size to Sierra 168 Matchkings. Use the load data from your load data book, and "work up the load" that works best with the harmonics of your gun/barrel. Hornady 168 BTHPs are 1.23" in length and Sierra 168 MKs are 1.215", less than 2% difference. All Rights Reserved. My Savage FCPK in 308 will shoot 1/2 inch groups with 4064 behind a 168 grain nosler CC. All Shooting Times subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. ArmaLite designed a scaled-down AR-15 chambered for a .22-caliber round. Win 748, LC Match, Fed 210 Primer .308 Match Loads Effective out to 385 Meters 168 gr. 175 gr. Several other firms offer AR-10-style rifles. The next most important factor is properly preparing your brass. Also I am out of school and looking for a job for well over four mounths with only landing one interview. In fact, I purchased two additional upper assemblies (204 Ruger and 6.5 Grendel) and tested hundreds more factory and handloaded rounds with similarly excellent results. Next, we pit subsonic rivals against each other before stretching the legs of this CQB round out to 600 yards from a short 9-inch barrel. Several sources have reported that IMR 4064 is what Federal uses in Gold Medal Match 308 ammo. Okay…you’ve selected a few promising propellants to try, and you’ve prepared batches of cases to load. SMK, 43.0 gr. However, if you're spending the extra money for them, extremely accurate loading will improve your accuracy. 300 RCM. ALL 57 gr 100 gr 110 gr 115 gr 123 gr 125 gr 130 gr 135 gr 140 gr 150 gr 154 gr 155 gr 165 gr 167 gr 168 gr 170 gr 175 gr 178 gr 180 gr 185 gr 190 gr 200 gr 205 gr 208 gr 210 gr 220 gr. Got my glass mounted and the barrel "broke in" lol and the scope on paper. So I'll probably load 400 of those in preparation for the class. Going to start off loading the 165 gr Accubond. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Handgun shotshells are more complicated than one might think. Nosler also sell a 155 grain .308" match bullet in 1000 bulk boxes if you're dead set on lighter weights. I ordered a Tubbs flat-wire recoil spring from Brownells and installed a heavier buffer assembly. I also compared that data with other recent loading manuals just to make sure caution prevailed with my test loads. Remember, the sizer die may be adjusted to set the shoulder back even further. I have moved and lost my neighbor with the reloading equipment. Case: Federal GMM .308 fire formed and match prepped Primer: Federal 210-GMM Bullet: 168 grain SMK Powder: 43.2 grains (?) I resized a different case, and that time the shoulder was set back just enough to readily chamber and extract. Multiple failures to feed, weak case extraction/ejection, blurred/burred headstamps, so-so accuracy, etc., suggested the AR-10’s direct-impingement gas system was, apparently, more difficult to manage than my AR-15’s. NES/MFS February Giveaway ***Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 380***, http://forum.snipershide.com/sniper...ral-gold-medal-match-load-mk-316-mod-0-a.html. Description, This is some after thoughts on the brake in of the Rem 700 AAC SD, Thoughts about Stock bedding, Powder, Bullet style and weights. The corresponding lower powder charges generate less propellant gas and ensure adequate chamber pressures while reducing port pressures. You can be a lot more flexible as to which powder and how much you load to safely achieve the best ballistic performance. IMR-4064 worked pretty well, but the definite overall best powder with 150s was Varget. This was just at a starting load of 4064 of 43.5 gr. The new battle rifle would provide full automatic as well as semiautomatic capability with a higher-capacity, detachable box magazine instead of the not-so-user-friendly, eight-round en-bloc clip charging scheme. It was obviously still a prototype design and needed further development. Obviously, I’d attempted to avoid excessive headspace too diligently. I had to lock the carrier back, drop a round into the chamber, and release the carrier before I could fire each shot. IMR 4064 group was the smallest at.318″ (.304 MOA) with a velocity of 2,712 feet/second and a SD of 9.7 feet/second. 4064 is an excellent powder for 168 gr in 308. The two samples of military cases I used are quite a bit heavier than most of the commercial ones. IMR 4166 and .308 168. tadeloach22. But 8208 is so good in my 5.56 with 77 MK. The most significant difference is that the 7.62 NATO case headspace is nominally a few thousandths greater than the 308’s. Think about it. No powder … One hole groups if I do my part. Mind you, if you're not using match grade bullets it doesn't really matter. However, cases fired in the Sun Devil rifle always felt a bit above flush, i.e., the fired case shoulder had been fireformed to the 7.62 NATO chamber’s slightly greater headspace. So now I take the trial case mentioned above, seat a bullet to make up a full-scale “dummy” round, pop it into the magazine, and let ’er strip! It shot re15 at 1/2 moa and 4064 at … Just for a point of reference, I pulled the 168-grain bullets from four different factory loads and weighed the powder charges. Precision Reloading Guide Part 3: Priming, Powder Charging & Bullet Seating, Best .22 Magnum Revolvers Available Right Now, Best Red-Dot Sights for Lever-Action Rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P9 Shield EZ vs. Taurus G3c, Black Hills Evolution of Rifle Cartridge: .308 Win. For the 160-175 grain boattails used by the majority of .308 shooters, you want a powder of medium burn rate that gives close to 100% load density. Powder ALL Accurate 2015 Accurate 2200 Accurate 2230 Accurate 2460 Accurate 2495 Accurate 2520 Accurate 4064 Accurate 5744 Accurate LT-30 Accurate LT-32 Alliant … IMR 4064, LC Match, Fed 210 Primer 168 gr. The final military configuration was not adopted by the Army for two more years, so there are both physical and ballistic differences between the 7.62x51mm and the 308 Winchester cartridges. Pretty difficult to beat Varget under any bullet in a .308, IMR 4064 is a distant second in my opinion. The “classic” .308 load for 168gr SMKs is IMR 4064 with Federal primers. Coincidentally, the last group I fired, comprising 43.5 grains of IMR 4064 behind 168-grain Sierra HPBT bullets loaded in Lapua brass, functioned perfectly and put four of five shots into one hole. loads above will work like a champ at this distance as long as the wind isn't too bad. Also, I won’t push for maximum velocities—especially with the “slower” burn rate propellants. With Berger 168-grain VLDs, VV-N140 won by a nose with RL-15 and Varget right behind. Joined Apr 2, 2015 Messages 1,148 Location Wyoming. Balancing all of the variables (e.g., chamber pressure, port size/location, carrier/buffer weights, recoil spring rate/height) is apparently still more art (trial and error) than science (based on demonstrated analytical methods). To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. Coincidentally, the last group I fired, comprising 43.5 grains of IMR 4064 behind 168-grain Sierra HPBT bullets loaded in Lapua brass, functioned perfectly and put four of five shots into one hole. Min Charge Max Charge Optimal Charge Bullet Make Bullet Type Primer Notes; Accurate - 2230: 130 gr. IMR recommends always consulting www.IMRReloading.com for the most accurate, up-to-date … Eventually, in 1957, the M14 was chosen over the ArmaLite AR-10 and the FN FAL as the Army’s new battle rifle. 010 off the lands "well".. then … SMK over 41.7 Gr. 42 grains of IMR 4064 168 AMAX seated at 2.830 is my load, she works great. The rest of this story is marked with many missteps, but eventually, the military adopted the AR-15/M16 to complement (i.e., essentially replace) the short-lived M14. A medium burn speed propellant with many uses, IMR 3031 has long been a favorite of 308 Match shooters using 168-grain match bullets. So much so, that I ordered a couple 8 pound kegs of it too keep me busy. If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over. However, that will surely create excessive headspace, which may cause a misfire from a weak primer strike. 308 likes. Initially, the goal was modest: develop a shorter .30-caliber round with similar ballistics chambered in a modified M1. Notes: Velocity was measured with an Oehler M35P chronograph at 8 feet from the gun’s muzzle. Match bullet. Springfield Armory was in charge of developing the companion selective-fire rifle. IMR 4064 shows a lot of promise. But more on that later. I have went months without coming across Varget. 168 grain A max and BTHP #30501 IMR 4895 starting load 39.6 grains max 47.1 grains As for your come ups... your basic come up from 100 yard zero is 2moa or 2 clicks up +/- ? Once I find a favorite, I’ll play with cartridge OAL. I can only assume the material “spring back” properties varied enough to cause the problem. An autoloader has to run before it can shoot straight, right? 78. of 2.875 to fit my magazines. ArmaLite continued to market the AR-10 to foreign governments but with little success and more mishaps. And to achieve the 30-06’s ballistic performance in the smaller-capacity case, the maximum chamber pressure was increased slightly. 300 Wby Mag. Got gas? I carefully adjusted my RCBS full-length sizer die so that it would resize all of the neck but just “kiss” the case shoulder and set it back no more than a couple thousandths of an inch. Of course, I couldn’t keep the last round in the first four-round cluster. Had to wait unitl I could get my own. I also discovered that Winchester cases from a box of match factory loads weighed 11 grains more than typical Winchester brass. After releasing the bolt/carrier assembly, I simply grasped the charging handle to see if the bolt could be easily pulled rearward to extract the empty case. I own a Savage Model 12 that hates Varget with 150-168 GR bullets.. Then, there was some rumors floating around that Federal started using RL-15 instead of IMR-4064… The case neck was lengthened, and the shoulder angle and body taper were reduced. I retrieved my Powley Computer and, after determining the case capacities of the various brands of brass to be loaded, calculated the “preferred” propellant and charge weights. Then I trimmed the test case to minimum length and dropped it into the chamber. Be sure to enter the NES/MFS February Giveaway ***Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 380***. Powder Bul Weight C.O.L. For a match load try a 168 gr. Concurrent with this effort, U.S. small arms strategy was shifting once again because a much smaller, .22-caliber round chambered in an even more compact rifle was already being considered. When loading 168 grain match bullets seated at 2.2800" oal I've used: 43.0 grains of WW-748 40.5 grains of AA-2460 40.0 grains of IMR-4895 41.0 grains of IMR-4064 40 grains of H4895 41.5 grains of VihtaVouri N150 40.5 grains of VihtaVuori N140 The case heads of commercial 308 factory loads I checked always fit the gauge just below flush of the max reference surface. I have not yet really worked up a load. Powder: IMR 4064 Primer: CCI BR2 Bullet: Sierra 168gr Tipped MatchKing (TMK) Dies: Lee Precision Brass was full length sized, checked for length (all were very close to the trim to length so i didn't trim them), chamfered in/out. There are already plenty of hot gases flowing into the AR’s receiver under normal conditions. To determine case capacity, I weigh a clean, fired case and fill it with water to the bottom of the neck.

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